Posts by Nathan Natas

Losingit, I've got quite a file on M. L. McPhail. Stuff like his FULL name, info on his family, his gravestone, the whole nine yards; some of his music, etc. I've even got some 'scandalous' information about his namesake son, who gained some fame of his own. Interested? YOU may be the next XJW publishing millionaire!

18

Do JW still hold to their 1984 Doomsday deadline?

by bytheirworks in

jw
friends

did jw's predict the world would end in 1984?.

the september 21, 1984 issue of chrisitanity today on pages 66-67, ran an article entitled: "do jehovah's witnesses still hold to their 1984 doomsday deadline?".

that's as far as my search has gotten me and it isn't on chrisitanity today's web-site.. can anyone find this article for me?.

Nathan Natas

Tresdecu recalled, " I remember meeting Glass back in the 90s. He gave the memorial talk at our hall. I was a young teenager in 84...and don't remember too much expectation or talk about 84..."

Did you meet the mysterious WALTER Glass, or Ulysses V. Glass?

Perhaps your recollection about 1984 expectations fail you because as a teenager, your thoughts were more gonad-driven at that time.

18

Do JW still hold to their 1984 Doomsday deadline?

by bytheirworks in

jw
friends

did jw's predict the world would end in 1984?.

the september 21, 1984 issue of chrisitanity today on pages 66-67, ran an article entitled: "do jehovah's witnesses still hold to their 1984 doomsday deadline?".

that's as far as my search has gotten me and it isn't on chrisitanity today's web-site.. can anyone find this article for me?.

Nathan Natas

I recall a "Brother U. V. Glass" (Ultra Violet? WoW! Cool name, Bro!) who spoke at many assemblies back in the 60s. might he have been related? Gary Botting's JW experience happened primarily in Canada. Check Canada Bethel?

31

Unwanted Books/Brochures

by rod.henderson in

if anyone has any unwanted jw books or brochures let me know.

not really in a position to buy them from you but i could cover postage maybe?

my jw friend says she'll get me copies of things but never does.. apologies if here was the wrong forum place for this post.. .

Nathan Natas

Somebody (not me) should write a book about the history of JW hymns. It would be fascinating! In the early days Russell's crew just sang the songs they knew from their previous Protestant backgrounds, but Russell's very first PILGRIM was M. L. McPhail, who was a hymnwriter and singer. McPhail wrote most of the songs used in the early Bible Student's hymnals.

As doctrines changed and evolved, songs by "worldly" hymn-writers fell out of favor and were purged from WT songbooks. This has continued to this day, leaving the WT with songbooks full of lousy music and lousier songs.

Yes, Jah's Magnificent Chariot moves on, but turn down the sound-track, please!

14

Should an elder discourage military service even if said elder has a military pension?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

discussion with my wife concerning what i perceive as a hypocrisy that i see amongst elders (and ministerial servants) who happened to serve in the military long enough to draw a pension check.

all this in a former life (read before coming in to the truth) of course.

i think if said elder were to discourage a young one from seeking military service, or worse participate in the disfellowshipping of such a person if he or she choose to serve, smacks of total hypocrisy.

Nathan Natas

I am not a lawyer, but any elder who "discourages military service" may be in violation of the Espionage Act of 1917, which is still law in the USA. In fact, some of the charges againt communists Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, Cablegate leaker Bradley Manning, and alleged NSA leaker Edward Snowden were that they had acted in violation of this law.

That's why MOST elders will not make such statements openly or publicly in front of an audience that might include FBI agents or informants. Usually an elder will arrange for a private, one-on-one meeting with a JW male who is turning 18 and have a "this never happened" conversation with them discussing the young man's obligation to god.

Get these elders on tape and share the tape with the FBI. It's your duty as a good citizen.

18

Do JW still hold to their 1984 Doomsday deadline?

by bytheirworks in

jw
friends

did jw's predict the world would end in 1984?.

the september 21, 1984 issue of chrisitanity today on pages 66-67, ran an article entitled: "do jehovah's witnesses still hold to their 1984 doomsday deadline?".

that's as far as my search has gotten me and it isn't on chrisitanity today's web-site.. can anyone find this article for me?.

Nathan Natas

I want to mention that I have had the pleasure of meeting Gary Botting for diner a few years back. He's a gem of a guy and leaves nothing but good impressions in all aspects. For Gary the matter of 1984 was especially important because the issue was pressed on him when he was still a teen-ager in school by a teacher he respected who one day asked the class, "Who can name the religion that expects the world to end by 1984?" The teacher then answered his own question; "Jehovah's Witnesses!" At that time Gary himself (being just a youngster, after all) did not realize how the WT stressed 1984. The experience motivated Gary to learn more about WT falsehoods. Of course all of this - Gary's youthful experience AND his interview in Christianity Today - took place BEFORE the deadline of October 2, 1984.

Those who say they don't recall this were either not involved in the religion before 1984 or were not paying attention to all the crumbs scattered on Jehovah's great feast-table.

As for the 1986 "Peace and security" hubub, that was simply a knee-jerk reaction to the use of the phrase by newspapers of the time.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 -- " Now when they are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will surely not escape. "

Some translations use the word "safety" instead of "security" like the Witnesses' own New World Translation does, so it was simple coincidence that got the JWs all wound-up over 1986. If I might quote Monty Python, "then, suddenly, nothing happened!"

22

Witnessing to athiests

by zound in

jw
friends

can't seem to find anything about this in the reasoning book.

what do jehovah's witnesses usually say / instructed to say to try and get athiests interesteds in joining?.

Nathan Natas

Atheism is a religion in the same way that not smoking is a habit.

...and for Crisht's sake, learn to spell atheism correctly!

18

Do JW still hold to their 1984 Doomsday deadline?

by bytheirworks in

jw
friends

did jw's predict the world would end in 1984?.

the september 21, 1984 issue of chrisitanity today on pages 66-67, ran an article entitled: "do jehovah's witnesses still hold to their 1984 doomsday deadline?".

that's as far as my search has gotten me and it isn't on chrisitanity today's web-site.. can anyone find this article for me?.

Nathan Natas

Here's a plain-text (non-page-image) version of the article. You can request a pdf version of the article from your Public Library.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Still Hold To Their 1984 Doomsday Deadline?

Twenty years ago most Jehovah’s Witnesses believed the world would end by 1984. To be exact, they expected the end to come by October 2.

With that day just around the corner, members of the cult should be preparing for doomsday. But they aren’t, according to Gary Botting, coauthor with his wife, Heather, of The Orwellian World Of Jehovah’s Witnesses (Univ. of Toronto Press). The Botting’s new book challenges the cult’s views of the end of time.

The Witnesses’ Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society teaches that Jesus assumed his throne in heaven in 1914. It is a key point in Witness doctrine that at least some of those alive at that time will live to see the destruction of all the nations and most of their inhabitants. Formerly it was taught that a generation was limited to 70 years. It is debatable whether most Witnesses still hold to the 1984 deadline.

“The [Watch Tower] society may not talk about it much. Not everyone may believe it. But it’s still in the back of people’s minds,” says Gary Botting, a Jehovah’s Witness since childhood. “People who might have dropped out are hedging their bets. They say to themselves, ‘What if Jehovah’s Witnesses were right all along?’”

Walter Glass, registrar of the Witnesses’ Tower Bible School of the Gilead, says they do not preach that the world will end un 1984 since there is no requirement that a generation be limited to 70 years. However, he says the society holds to the view that the world will end before the generation alive in 1914 perishes.

Botting says an earlier end-time deadline set by the Witnesses passed without incident in 1975. In the 1960s the society hinted that the world would end in 1975 – ostensibly because they believed it to be the 6,000th year after Creation. But while the cult’s public pronouncements are more cautious today, Botting says the 1984 deadline remains a powerful device in holding members in line. In recent years, large numbers of formerly inactive Witnesses have become active. Membership rolls swelled in the past year by 6.8 percent, the biggest increase since 1975.

In their book, the Bottings liken the organization and its 18-member governing board to the despotic superstate portrayed by George Orwell in his novel Nineteen Eighty Four. They argue that Jehovah’s Witnesses are citizens of a world where independent thought is not allowed and where unity must be expressed at all costs.

Botting says the Witnesses’ leadership keeps members in check by instilling fear in them. Dissidents can be excommunicated, cutting them off socially from friends in the group.

Watch Tower officials discount the author’s criticisms. Glass cites Paul’s instructions to believers that they should “admonish” those who don’t follow his teachings. “If that is being authoritarian, then we are authoritarian,” Glass says. “There’s room for free thought, but not in the organization. Dissent would be contrary to God’s way.”

The Bottings say the Witnesses’ top leaders still hold to the 1984 end-time theory, and that it is only a matter of time before their credibility will be destroyed.

– Religious News Service

from Christianity Today, September 21, 1984, page 66